The Let's Get Comfy Podcast
Hosted by Founder and CEO of Comfort Measures Consulting LLC, Norman Harris. The Official Healthcare Edutainment station. Empowering listeners with the knowledge and resources to age comfortably. The podcast platform will uniquely provide laughter, peace, joy, resources and most of all COMFORT. Fostering professional partnerships and engaging the audience by providing them access to a REAL family-like conversation. That gives them the REAL reasons. Connects them to REAL reliable resources. To get REAL results. For REAL Comfort! Through interviews with C-suite healthcare leaders, experts, caregivers, founders, authors, educators, and thought leaders who are doing incredible work for older adults, family caregivers, and the healthcare community.
The Let's Get Comfy Podcast
If a Woman Was President: Power, Barriers, and the Blueprint for Change
Start with the better question: when, not if. That single shift unlocks a charged, deeply practical conversation about women’s leadership, the cultural myths that gatekeep power, and the concrete moves that help people flourish at work and beyond. We sit down with Dr. Shirley Davis and Pamala McCoy to blend lived experience, HR expertise, and entrepreneurial grit into a toolkit you can actually use.
We trace the spark that surrounds a woman running for the highest office and connect it to everyday leadership: bias you can name, intuition you can trust, and resilience you can build. Pamela shares how a hostile C‑suite nudged her into launching a purpose-driven company—and why gratitude for that “bona‑5D blessing” still fuels her. Dr. Shirley brings thirty years of HR leadership to the table, translating research into action on disengagement, toxic managers, psychological safety, and the power of a personal board of advisors. Together, we map the real drivers of engagement—great leaders, flexibility, and meaning—while disentangling surface distractions from structural problems.
We go deep on mental health, especially in Black and brown communities and among men, where stigma runs high. Pamela spotlights The Confess Project training barbers as first-line listeners, turning trusted community spaces into compassionate entry points for care. We dig into privacy, EAP access, and how companies can protect employees while normalizing help-seeking. Then we take on the boys’ club with candor, acknowledging where sponsorship came from, where it didn’t, and how modern sisterhood—intentional, cross-country networks—turns praise into promotions and referrals. Expect sharp takes on AI and reskilling, return-to-office friction, and the art of standing firm with policy, poise, and purpose.
If you care about women in the White House, women in the boardroom, or simply building a healthier team, this conversation brings faith and data together to show the way. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs a lift, and leave a review telling us one change you want leaders to make this year.
When you win a woman be president, I think I'm on the right panel right now. I think I'm on the right panel. And I would say not only are we overdue, but you look at other developed countries like ours, every one of them have had a female president or prime minister.
SPEAKER_04:It is our time. It's just a matter of time. I think you know the energy, the galvanizing of the people, and not just women, the people at large getting.
SPEAKER_06:Welcome and thank you for tuning in to the inaugural CMC Media and Advocacy Women Panel. I am your host, Jasmine Jazz Bennett, and I am joined by Dr. Shirley Davis and Pamela McCoy. So, ladies, tell me why are we on a panel titled If a Woman Was President?
SPEAKER_07:I'm thrilled and honored to be here. So thank you for having me. Good to be on here with my colleague Pamela. You know, I think this title is a misnomer because the first word was if a woman were president. I think the question needs to be when a woman be president. I think I'm on the right panel right now. I think I'm on the right panel. Look, women in the United States are capable, we're able, I believe we're intelligent, we have so much knowledge, skills. We're look, we're holding it down. Yeah. And I just believe that we are past our time of having a female president. We were close. Yeah. And I still believe that that was so much energy and so much power that came from the energy. Did y'all see the energy behind just a woman running, not just with Kamala Harris, but even when Hillary Clinton was running, there was energy there. And I think it's because so many of us realize that we are capable and able to do it. And I would say not only are we overdue, but you look at other developed countries like ours, every one of them have had a female president or prime minister. And so we are superpower, and yet we've never had the power of a woman president. So I'm glad to talk about the issue.
SPEAKER_06:I am too, and it's coming. I know that it's coming. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:And I I I too, I'm esteemed to me, my esteemed colleague, um, the doctor here, and concur with everything that she has said. I'm excited. It is past time. It is past time, it is our time. It's just a matter of time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I think, you know, the the energy, the galvanizing of the people and not just women, the people at large getting behind Kamala when she was running. Um, you know, I think it is time. It is time. And I was beyond equipped.
SPEAKER_06:I was looking forward to it. Um, other than the fact that she's my sorority sister, just seeing hindsight now, all of the things that she predicted would occur in this administration is right in in front and center right now. And so that goes back to a woman's tuition, intuition. I know we always think about you know, women being emotional. That's the argument behind if a female is ready to be president. But what we lack, we lack the ability to acknowledge that we definitely have a heightened sense of having that intuition. So we're ready. It's time. It's overdue. It's overdue. It's overdue. So, ladies, I too am happy to be here. I'm I'm elated. Your expertise, your poise, your beauty, your knowledge, your bios definitely speak volumes. And so we're gonna get right into the interview and to get to know you a little bit better, all right? And so I want to know was there a time in your journey when everything seemed to be working against you? And then how did you find the strength to keep going?
SPEAKER_04:Well, I'll take that first. Um, probably my time right before I stepped out of banking to into entrepreneurship, yeah. Um, the CEO that I had at the time had challenges. And I say challenges because those were his issues. And so we all have to be cautious in calling the thing the thing, right? They were his issues. He had issues from the time that he came in, not only with females being in position in the C-suite, um, but then he got that double shot. Not only was I female, but then I was a minority female in the C-suite, right? So, but those were his issues that he brought with him when he came, right? So from day one, he had challenges. Um, and and so it was that constant, but I am comfortable in my own skin. I'm with me everywhere I go, right? Um, so I didn't have to get comfortable, but he had to get comfortable. And so that challenge was consistent. But my faith and my family, I mentioned in my my intro interview, my husband, I have been married now for 30 years and we've been together 33 years. Um, he is my heartbeat, right? Always in the corner, always cheering, always there supporting, right? So when you're out in the battle and you get to come home, right? You get that energized, that re-energy, um, and you have your faith, right? So you have him at the helm and you have him at the helm of the household. You know, that always prepares you for war, for the battle to go back in, to know that you can and you will come out on the other side. And so, yeah, it was challenging most days to just go in. But, you know, you know, the victory is his always. Always. And when I tell you the stories, we don't have time for all of that today, but an amazing journey on the other side that segued into entrepreneurship. And I will just give you one little bona fide bit as I like to call it when I left. Um, I did following, I left in September and not the next November, but the following November at Thanksgiving, I sent an email to the CEO and it simply said, In this season of Thanksgiving, it was laid on my heart to send you this note to thank you for my bona fide. And I spelled it like my company, which is spelled different, B-O-N-A, the number 5D. This bona fide blessing, drop the mic.
SPEAKER_06:Drop the mic. That part. Pamela, you better speak.
SPEAKER_04:Release. It was done. It was done. And he didn't have to respond. He did read it because I got the return receipt. But um, but yeah, that was that was that was it. It was done. You know, when God said it is finished, it is done. Yeah, and it was.
SPEAKER_06:That's a that's an incredible um testament to what I what I term the comeback. Because I think we all will have a situation, we'll all always have situations where we're gonna have to have a comeback in our life. And I truly believe I love that you put God as that first staple because I believe you can come back from anything with God using the right resources effectively and your willingness to do the necessary work.
SPEAKER_00:Hi friends, I'm Jennifer Eddings, the heart behind the Call Light Collective. Be sure to tune in on Cover Measures Media on YouTube, as well as follow us along on all of your other platforms you love for podcasts. Together, we're gonna be walking each other home one conversation at a time.
SPEAKER_06:So, Dr. Shirley, Dr. Davis. I'm sorry, I feel like we're friends because you know, like listen, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I feel like we are just just friends in in and I keep playing replaying a song in my head. Um, I feel like I'm talking to Shirley, like, hey Shirley, let's talk, let's talk now. Let's talk. So you are in a field, coming from a field, have that expertise as um being in the the field of HR. And so I know that you get problems all the time. All the time that you have to solve. Yeah. And um outside of that um realm of expertise, you are immersed in so much, as we heard from your intro. So, how do you respond to that question?
SPEAKER_07:Particularly with all the things that I've had to deal with with other people, I'm gonna start with myself first, right? I love, love, love, Pamela, what you shared about your story because I think all of us as women or people of color or people from underrepresented, underserved, marginalized groups can identify with that same kind of thing. I have also dealt with being marginalized, trivialized, and being minimized. And look, not being valued for the work, the talents, the gifts, the press, the compromises, the sacrifices that we make every day for our families, trying to take care of them and then building other people's businesses. But for me, one of the biggest challenges that I faced was early on in my career when I was married, going through a divorce, found out I was pregnant, decided that I wasn't going to stay in the marriage because it wasn't working then, and I wasn't going to then take on another extra burden, then I was broke, right? Had all kinds of credit card debt, filed bankrupt in a job that I wasn't happy about, and just was it was one thing after another. And it could have broke me, but I thank God that one of the things for me that well I was able to pull myself together based on my faith, based on my foundation, and knowing that my mother and my father raised a strong, beautiful, hardworking, persevering woman that I could make it. Yeah. Um, and I just wanted to prove to myself and to my daughter at the time that you're not gonna inherit this. We're gonna cut this off right now. So that was some of the things that kept me going. Now I am a woman of faith. I'm a licensed and ordained minister and pastor. And so I knew that I had to call on who I knew could help me to get through it all. And that was very helpful for me. But it also helped me to have good friends, good family around me. I call it my personal board of advisors. I have to call on the people that you know can push you, pray for you, help you press through, and help remind you of your purpose, those four P's, right? It's so important that you got the right people in your life. I say relationships are the new currency. So in HR, those are the things that also help me help other people because I've been through so many things early in my life that it allowed me to be able to be empathetic to them, to understand the shifts and the challenges that we all go through in life, but also give them some good information and knowledge and wisdom and lessons learned about how they too could be better. You don't have to get fired today. You know what? Because I'm not firing you. You fire yourself. Right. Look, sometimes this is not the right job for you. Sometimes your season is over, and sometimes we have to release people to their destiny because there's another chapter in their life and it's just not here. So it's those kinds of things that I've had to do in HR, but it was a spillover from what I had to do in my own life.
SPEAKER_06:Listen, I could talk to you ladies all day. And as a matter of fact, you know, we are gonna give the the viewers a lot of you because this setting is totally different from your professional setting. And I will tell you shamelessly, I love people in HR. I love to pick your brains because you guys know how to talk that talk professionally. You you tactfully and diplomatic, and all like you, you you know how to lay it on. That's right. And I I love that. And I just I love learning from new people. Pamela, I'm looking at you, and Pamela came dressed in her own designer. I I saw that it's painted, hand painted on. I saw the heels. You know how ladies do. We check you from head to toe. So I I love being in spaces with women who have lived their lives, who are still living their lives, and you're doing it unapologetically.
SPEAKER_08:That's right.
SPEAKER_06:We can learn a lot from ladies, and then especially we can learn a lot from African American ladies. So you said earlier, Pamela, that your boss saw you in a threatening way of twofold, because you are African American and also because you are a female. And so I love how you guys just gave us the tools. You definitely have a powerful toolkit on how you came back from that. So thank you for those gems. So write those down. If you are watching and you haven't gotten your notepad, get your notepad out. You know, this this is a masterclass in itself, okay? All right, and so as a small business um woman and you have a small business that you own, how do you differentiate your brand and your business from others in the competitive the competitive marketplace? How do you separate yourselves?
SPEAKER_04:I think for me, authenticity.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:People want to see the realness of you. And I think Dr. Shirley implied some of that in her response, right? To let them know, you know, I didn't, I'm arrived, right? I'm here. Right? No, we all have had bumps in the road. Life be life and for everybody. Yeah, right. And and people want to know that that you you didn't just come here and oh, I have all the answers, right? Like, no, like I've been through some things, right? Because if you haven't been through anything, how can you help me or show me something? Yeah, right. Um, and so I think being authentic and being able to show the empathy and being able to meet people where they're at. Because in both of my businesses, right, your mind and your money, people need you to meet them where they're at. Don't talk to me at this high level because then they tune you out. Right? Don't talk at me because I don't need you to talk at me. I need you to teach me, I need you to help me, right? And you can't help me if I'm tuning you out. So I think for me and what I do, it is those two key things, you know, being authentic and meeting people and being willing to meet people where they're at, and then being able to see that. Um because people, there's there's a lot of people that do what I do, but nobody can do it like I do. Like you do.
SPEAKER_07:I think that's so important. And yes, we have to be authentic and unapologetic for who we are and for what we bring. The work that I do at SDS Global is we help organizations through organizational assessments and audits and coaching, we help bring leaders together to build great talent on their team. The pipelines need to be built, as I say, very diverse and much inclusive. Um, but we also help them to create the kind of cultures where people like us can thrive. We can bring our best sales, our best ideas, do our best work, and feel valued, respected, heard, and seen.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:So the ways that I have to differentiate my business, because there's a lot of them out there that's consulting and doing that same kind of work, is I let them know is that I bring 30 plus years of hands-on experience. I didn't read a book, I didn't watch a podcast, didn't watch YouTube only, but I have been on the front line doing the work. So that's a great differentiator. I've even gone through the experiences of getting certified through a number of credentialing boards who have said your work is top-notch. The other thing that differentiates me is I happen to be a LinkedIn learning author of 10 very popular courses, and many of my clients have had their staff go through LinkedIn learning course and they're like, oh my God, there's Dr. Davis. One of my courses was the top 10 course of 2024 in leadership. So that's a differentiator. And then I also have picked the people that's on my team. So I was very intentional and strategic about getting people who had a varied amount of skills and expertise that I didn't have. So we bring a very well-rounded, comprehensive approach to what they're doing. And the last thing is research-based. I know that they want things that are proven, tried results, and we are able to do that through research and all of the different types of studies that we've done, the audits that we do, we bring a good amount of information about what other companies are doing, what other sectors are doing. And they oftentimes want to know what their competition is doing, and we can tell them because they work in a silo a lot of times.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. So do you ever get clients who want a fast-paced return on, okay, this is the result that I'm looking for? How fast can you give me those results?
SPEAKER_07:And how do you think I tell them they can get it as fast as the leaders implement?
SPEAKER_06:Thank you.
SPEAKER_07:Because at the end of the day, I'm there as an expert to help guide them through that process and to give them solutions, but I'm not there to do the work. So I want to hold their hand and I want to give them the resources, but to the extent that they are committed, that they implement, and that they take accountability for doing the work, they can see the results.
SPEAKER_04:And I say the same thing in one of my books. I actually say, in one of my first books, I actually say that success only comes before work in the dictionary. That's right. Everybody, everywhere else in life, you gotta put in the work if you want to see success.
SPEAKER_08:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:At Comfort Measures Consulting, we're here to help you navigate the complexity of healthcare. If you're caring for a loved one as a caregiver, you don't have resources, you don't know what questions to ask, you need to have options, right? Give confirmation a call. Give us a chance. First consultation is free. Speak with me. Confirm measures consultant. 850-879-2182. You can also visit our website at www.confirmation consultant.com. Talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_06:All right, so you are both experts, right? You are in the global market. Um, your thought leaders, your certified coaches in leadership, etc. What are you seeing as some critical challenges that are being faced in the workforce today? And then what can leaders do to solve those problems?
SPEAKER_07:I see a lot. And I see it because we do a lot of focus groups, we do quite a bit of organizational assessments. So we're hearing from the employees, but we're also hearing from the leaders. I can tell you unequivocally, and based on research, not just my own company's audits and assessments, is that workers are disengaged, right? Gallup organization tells us that only 31% of workers worldwide are highly engaged at work. So that means that people are doing just enough not to quit, getting paid just enough not to get fired, right? That's not high productivity. You're not getting the best work out of people. They're showing up for a paycheck and not because they're invested in the company's success. So that's a big issue. The second thing, too, is mental health and stress is at an all-time high. We're talking about it now in a way we've never talked about it before. HR used to say you couldn't talk about certain things and that was sort of off limits and it was taboo. Now we're encouraging people to have those conversations. But the problem is that because they haven't always had permission to talk about them, they lack the skills to be able to talk about it. And so sometimes that can bring along a lot of feelings of and feeling insulted, disregarded, you know, just disrespected because people don't know how to tee those conversations up. So we do a lot of training on tips for talking about taboo topics, right? We do a lot with our leaders on helping them to be more empathetic and authentic and to create a sense of inclusion and belonging. We're talking about psychological safety at work as well. The other workforce issue that we're constantly seeing is that there's a need for more top talent. And yet, when you look at the shifts in the demographics, it looks very different today than it did 15 and 20 years ago. So, yes, diversity, equity, and inclusion is still very important because talent comes in all shapes, sizes, colors, backgrounds, ethnicities, and they bring different perspectives and ideas to the workplace. So we need those things. So, what can we do? We got to train. We need our leaders to be upskilled. We need them to reskill, not thinking that the skills that they got today are the skills that's gonna help them for the workforce of tomorrow and the future. So I'm helping them to understand how the workforce is changing in the next five to seven years, what skills and competencies they've got to build in order to be able to meet the needs of that changing workforce, but also how do you build cultures of inclusion, belonging, and high performance? Awesome.
SPEAKER_04:And I'll just kind of add, because she hit the nail right on the head in all things. Because it is, it's not a one thing, it's multifaceted. Um, but I'll elaborate a little bit more on the mental health space because that's the space that I fall in. Um, mental health is a real thing. And and though we're we're talking about it a little bit more, the wall is still very high. We've just removed a few bricks, right? It it's still not at a place where we can talk about it openly and comfortably as we do the weather.
SPEAKER_06:Why do you think, why do you think that is?
SPEAKER_04:It is, I think culturally, we're just not ready. We're just not ready to raise your hand and say, I'm not okay. Right? Um, you can, you know, I have the flu. I'm not feeling well today. Oh, I'll bring you some chicken soup, right? People, it's so comfortable, it's not a big thing. People will bring you chicken soup. Oh, but say you're having a mental health, let me look at my watch. I think I need to be somewhere. Yeah, like that's somebody else's. Somebody else needs to come to your rescue to bail you out to do something because that's not me, right? Because we're not comfortable in that space. And we have to get more comfortable because it doesn't require, as I like to say, that alphabet soup behind your name to be able to problem solve. Because oftentimes it only requires a listening ear. That's right. It only requires some empathy, some understanding, right? Um, but we're of this mindset that, and I like to use the analogy, the pot on the stove, because everyone can understand that, right? Um, we all know that if there's a pot on the stove and the burner's on high and there's a lid on the pot, it's just a matter of time. Depending on what's on the pot, we'll tell you how long, but it's just a matter of time, what's gonna happen? The lid's gonna pop off the pot, it's gonna spill over. But everybody walked through the kitchen and everybody saw the burner on high and the pot with the lid on it.
unknown:That's right.
SPEAKER_04:Somebody else is gonna turn it down. So everybody kept walking through the kitchen because somebody else is gonna do it, right? That's somebody else is gonna do it. Oh, but when the pot lid pops off and there's a mess in the kitchen, now everybody's got rags and mops, and everybody's trying to clean up the mess. But everybody, somebody, anybody could have turned the burner down or took the lid off. You know, anybody, but nobody did it.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_04:And that's akin to people's issues. It's not an issue now when we have these mass shootings or or all now, it's everybody's problem, right? Right? But when are you are you okay? Like you knew the person, you knew they weren't quite right, you knew they were going through, but somebody else's bag. Somebody else's problem, right? But now it's everybody's problem kind of thing. We've got to get beyond that. I'm part of a project that Tampa was selected as the place in Florida, um, the confess project. So we launched, we did our kickoff, we did our first session um in August training barbers because of all things, you think um they are our unofficial. Yeah, they're the neighborhood counselors, they're counselors, the therapists for years, right? Authentically, that's you're in the chair, but that's where people share, they open up. And we started with barbers because men are usually the ones who are more closed off. Females are a little more open to share, but happens in salons, too. But we started with barbers only because men are the ones in most need. And of course, when you take it back to the Bible and all that, the head household and all of all of that. Um, but we're doing this confessed project um in conjunction with the Envision Resolution as the nonprofit that's heading it up here in the Tampa Bay area. And we are equipping barbers with tools in their tool chests because as Dr. Shirley was alluding to, they've had all this information people have been outputting and downloading. What do I do with this? I don't know. I don't know, right? But now we got to give them some tools on what to do because these men are not gonna go to see a therapist. Why? Because culturally, man, you're weak. You know, I can't believe it. You know, all on I can't tell the fellas I'll go see a therapist. But why can't you? Right? Because that brick wall says that something's wrong with you, particularly in the black and brown community. Oh, just pray on it. Yeah, we need to pray on it. But you can go see a therapist too, right? We've got to get beyond all of that judgment, all of that stigma stuff, right? To get us where we need to be with mental health. And certainly we even have the issue with are you do you have insurance or don't have insurance? That's a whole issue, you're uninsured. But even if you do have insurance, if your employer knows that you're having mental health challenges, now your job is in jeopardy. Yeah, so now I have insurance, but I don't want to go through my insurance because then it's on my record. And now, depending on your job, now your job might be in jeopardy because you have mental health challenges. So now you're trying to circumvent your insurance, but I can't afford to pay private pay. So then I just won't get the help. Yeah. So it's a whole, it's a whole thing, right?
SPEAKER_07:So we work with HR and helping them to make sure that they are protecting the employees with that level of privacy. That's what HIPAA is all about. So it really doesn't become an employer's business if I want to go use my employee assistance program. So that's important.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_07:And the other two things I would say that we deal with a lot in the workplace that's really creeping up, and I think we'll see it in the future, is the whole issue of automation, auto, um, automation, artificial intelligence on digitization. Yeah. And companies are really, really ramping up with AI, and employees need to skill up, right? And they're afraid of it, not recognizing that you don't have to be afraid of it. You just need to learn how to leverage it to make the work more proficient, efficient, and effective. And then the other thing I'd say too, that's uh another workplace issue is workplace flexibility. And that's a hybrid and remote workplace now. That's a new reality for us. And so many companies are trying to go back to the RTO, right? Return to the office, return to the office. But people have gotten so used to now having a real a new reality that companies are trying to go backwards and there is some friction between their workers and yes, high-performing workers that say, I've been able to be effective, I've helped save your company. I've been productive, and you want me to come back now, and my life has got to change, and I got to be inconvenienced this way. It is a friction. So those are other issues we got to talk about.
SPEAKER_06:Awesome. I wanted to just briefly hit on something because when you stated that in the workforce, engagement seems to be one of those issues. The very first thing that came to me is we have this thing, and psychologists are doing a study on this where I can just imagine employees are being sidetracked with their phones, they're going to the restroom and they're they're hiding there, et cetera. I just heard a story on on the radio not too long ago on a syndicated radio station. Um, and they were doing research on the amount of employees, the amount of people who actually do this. And I just wonder, is the cell phone era that we're in, the social media era that we're in, is that a can a high contributing factor to that lack of engagement? Actually, no. No. No. What does the research say, Dr. Davis?
SPEAKER_07:Research shows that the key drivers of engagement or even disengagement, one comes back to the person that I work for. Okay. So I may have a toxic leader who does not see my value and my worth. Yeah. And that's a stressor coming to work every day. A lot of times people are calling sick, but they're not really sick. They just sick of you, right? They're sick of your leaders. Well, I might be sick of the people I work with on my team. So that's a big driver. Yeah. The other driver is lack of flexibility. So they feel like they want to be able to have work-life integration. Absolutely. And they don't feel like they have that. And then the other one is meaning and significance. So they want to be tied to something bigger than they are. And they don't see the value in what they're doing and how it's contributing to the company's overall success. So we have to do a better job of helping them to understand what they do every day, how that's contributing, helping them to find meaning in the work that they do, making sure they're in the right jobs and got the right skills and the right training to be effective. Now, what you're talking about with the age of technology, yes, people feel like they can do their jobs a lot faster and a lot more efficient, right? Not work longer hours, right? And so that's probably where some of it is. But I've seen them come to work. That's that problem with return to the office. You want me to come back to work, I'm gonna come, but I'm not gonna work as long as many hours. So they might be watching Netflix on their computers, or they'll be on the city. They're used to doing it. I'm telling you, Instagram and TikTok all day. Yeah, so those are some distractions, but they are symptoms of disengagement.
SPEAKER_01:For 75% of people use at least one social media platform, engaging content can help your home care agency connect with families seeking compassionate care. You must call that comfort measures consultant.
SPEAKER_06:How have you been able to deal with those situations? Um, do you feel that those clubs hold women back? And how can we dismantle this if needed?
SPEAKER_07:I've seen it in real in real life, in real time, and certainly even had complaints from employees to me to HR. Um, but I have experienced it myself. There is a voice at the club. 10 more minutes left. Okay, I was gonna drop them. No, you're good. Normally, you're good.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, I called up mid cents.
SPEAKER_07:Okay, no problem. So 10 more minutes is more. So I'll just start that one part back over. Yes, okay. So yeah, I have seen that happen in my career. I've been a part of uh on the other end, the receiving end of the boys' club. Okay, but I've also been on the receiving end of employees complaining to me at HR because of the boys' club. And the boys club, for those of you who don't know, really is those who look out for their boys and they save jobs and opportunities and they even put them up for promotions more so than they would any woman.
SPEAKER_06:A lot of talking on the golf course, that's right, at the pubs, cigar lounges. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_07:And they're saving jobs even for their sons and grandsons too, because I worked in manufacturing and those kinds of jobs like those have the boys' club approach as well. Now, for the girls' club, I have worked for a number of white women who have not been as supportive, as much of an advocate for me as a woman of color. So that's been some of my experience, and I have heard that in other sectors as well. Not one woman that I worked for directly was one that promoted me. Most all of my promotions and my best mentorships that came into promotions came from white men or older men, right? That was the reality. I what I have seen amongst my sisters is a real camaraderie coming together. I think historically there's a stigma that, you know, women don't watch out for other women and they don't help other women. That's not the case for what I've seen with my sisters. I have seen us come together and we support each other, we push each other. I've gotten calls, I've gotten recommendations, I got references and referrals from my sisters. So I say thank you, my sisters, for helping to push us up and lifting as we climb.
SPEAKER_06:I love to hear that. Yes. Is that your experience as well?
SPEAKER_04:The good old boy network, I concur. Um, because I my professional career was been in banking and finance. And so you all know mostly white males in banking, and particularly I was on the collection side, which is called the back end of the business, that was almost a hundred percent white male. Yeah. And I performed exceptionally. I was named one of the five women to watch in the nation.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_04:The nation. Yeah. Amongst all these white males. And that boss I talked about happened to be a white male, of course. And so that good old boy network, you know, that was tough. And I was in banking and finance for over 25 years, so that was a long ride on that bumpy trail. Um, but to her point, you know, as we have progressed, I went through the Goldman Sachs, um, one million black women. And when I tell you, the program was phenomenal. I was in cohort three, but the greatest gift that I got from that program was my GG8 sisters, because in the program there was 148 melanin sisters in my cohort. And then they break you down into growth groups. And the growth groups were six to eight, and in my group there were six, and we're from across the nation. But those GG eight, my sisters, oh my God, you know, to this day. That was to this day, we connect once a month on a Zoom. I mean, when I tell you we are entrenched in each other's lives and our businesses, pushing each other, supporting each other, all of that amazing, amazing, amazing. That's great. Um, you know, my philosophy as it relates to us females and not just our brown and black sisters in in in business, but that we really need to just embrace that we don't compete, we complete, because no one, no one can do you or be you but you. So, you know, no one can so no one can compete with you. So be the best you that you can be, right? And support other females in being the same. That's right. Um, and so that's what I say, yeah. How you push forward in that um and just being you and doing you.
SPEAKER_06:I love that.
SPEAKER_04:I love that.
SPEAKER_06:So I have a fun question for you. I'm gonna test you with your music knowledge, okay? I'm gonna sing something for you. I want to see if you can complete the line. Now, there was a song that went a little something like this Don't push me, cuz I'm close to the it.
SPEAKER_05:I'm trying not to lose my head. Okay, I'm in the right, I'm in the right room. I'm on the right panel. I'm on the right panel.
SPEAKER_06:I am on the right panel. So, ladies, being very real as you continue to be during this interview. What is it something in your what something in your workforce that has pushed you to the edge? Did you come to a point in your career that you almost quit? And then if you did, what made you stay?
SPEAKER_07:I had that several times. In my 30-plus year career in corporate America, I had three bosses that I can count on one hand that were best bosses ever. Everybody else was toxic, they were disrespectful, they were discriminatory in their practices. And so some of those that I work for pushed me to the edge. They minimized me, they made me feel very, very small, made me shrink. And I started to believe it at one point. And so it really affected me mentally and emotionally. And I can remember one in particular yelled, screamed, and hollered at me, and said, You messed it up every other black person coming after you, and I'll never help another one. And that really almost pushed me to the edge. But I did what anybody else would have did. I called my mama. I called my mama, I called my mama and she brought me on live and she reminded me you were smart, you was coming, and you is important. So those are the kinds of issues that I have had where I've had to just step on my faith, I've had to just step away. But I chose not to leave because I realized that one, I gotta take care of my child, right? And so I've got to make a living. But I did make more um contact across the organization and found another job and got away from that person. And for me, I've just learned that the greater your success is, it's the best part of your revenge from someone else that has treated you, you know, disrespectfully. So I hope that she sees me today because I'd be like, how you like me, name?
SPEAKER_06:We're gonna roll that in the closing.
SPEAKER_04:All right, Pamela. Um, kind of the same, you know, in in banking, and and I would go back to that same boss. Like we we had some challenging times. Um, and now when I look back on them, some of our our encounters were were comical. Um, because there were a few. I and one in particular I can remember um when Obama won the presidency the first time. Um and you know, Friday's was casual day, and and you know, we we jeans and t-shirts or whatever. But that Monday after he won, I wore the t-shirt that says, I think we can, right? And and it was a t-shirt when I left home, and it was a t-shirt when I got to the office, and I knew that. But when I wore it, you know, and he he said, Well, someone said, you know, you no, who was the someone? You know, let's let's talk about it, let's bring them on in and talk about it or whatever. And like, well, no, I'll talk to them later. Well, no, you know, and he's do you think you could um turn it inside out? No, no, because if I turn it, it'll still be a t-shirt. I don't think right, you know. Um, and I was like, you know, because the reality is when I wore it before, it was it was hope that today is a reality, right? And and so no, we can call a thing a thing. Um, like you're the CEO and I'm your subordinate, so you can ask me to go home, and I will. Yeah, right. I won't be back for today, but I I'll go home. But um, you know, you're called, right? We can you just put on no, I'm not putting on a sweater or jacket. What you gonna do? You know, and so we I wore my t-shirt all day. I'm just saying, you know, because we're gonna call this because we want to go back to the policy. The policy also says, you know, no logos other than the company logo, and so that eyes all that you have right there, that's in violation. So if we want to pull out the policy, we can.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, you know, if you want to get technically, right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_04:If you wanna go by the policy, we can do that, you know. So if not, I'll go back to my office. You know, so those kinds of things, but when those things are challenged, you just have to stand secure in self, stand on your faith. When I tell you, that's the foundation, that's the rock. You you know, and and a lot of that comes from, you know, too. When I say stand in yourself, self-esteem, which is what we do at B5, is building that self-esteem and knowing who you are, um, and being confident in that. The B5, and what is a B5? I'm so glad you asked. It is that I'm a bona fide boss with brains, beauty, and a believer in me. That's right. And when you know that you know that you know that you know that you know who you are, and if you're faithful, who's you are like all of that stuff can roll off of you and you can stand strong in that, and everything else has to shift. I love it. Everything else has to shift.
SPEAKER_06:I love it so much. So, ladies, listen, uh this panel has been phenomenal. This conversation is a conversation, it's just a starter of a bigger conversation that will continue to occur. And so, Dr. Shirley Davis.
SPEAKER_07:It's been a pleasure.
SPEAKER_06:Thank you so much for being a special guest, Miss Pamela McCoy. Thank you so much for being a special guest on the inaugural CMC. We are doing the advocacy panel, women's panel, and this has been an incredible episode. We want you to make sure that you are following on social media, that you are watching every episode, and stay tuned because we have more in store. I am your host, Jasmar Jazz Bennett, and we are signing off. Have a great day.
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